The development of the legal services industry in Shanghai continues its refinement. As Shanghai positions itself as an international financial center in 2020, this new standing will undoubtedly bring many development opportunities to the city. Those law firms in tune with the rhythm of economic development are also adjusting and upgrading their development strategies in conjunction with the city’s position, providing cross-border clients with legal services that meet international top flight standards. In this issue, we will perform a deep dive with the four managing partners, asking them to share their vision of how best to realize a truly international law firm, management strategies, and how to meet arising opportunities and challenges.
- Ma Chenguang, Managing Partner at Co-effort Law Firm LLP
- David Yu, Managing Partner at Llinks Law Offices
- Summit F. Chen, Managing Partner/Senior Partner of Dentons Shanghai, Director of Dentons China Region
- Shen Guoquan, Senior Partner at AllBright Law Offices
ALB: Reflecting on Shanghai's governmental policies and urban development goals could you describe to me what expansion opportunities have arisen for law firms?
Ma Chenguang: In 2018, Shanghai added a world class technological innovation center to its existing international economy, finance, trade and shipping résumé. Shanghai's business environment goal is set according to “benchmarking against the highest international standards and highest quality”. As the greater Yangtze River Delta region has been integrated into this national development strategy, the various policy initiatives are bound to bring tremendous opportunities for Shanghai's development.
In the field of legal services, Shanghai's policy initiatives and urban development goals will bring more business opportunities and increased clientele requirements, especially with regards to Shanghai's “five centers” new designation, bringing increased legal market exposure to areas including financial investment, cross-border mergers and acquisitions, maritime affairs, international trade, intellectual property rights, and TMT (technology, media and telecommunications).
When Co-Effort Law Firm LLP was established, intellectual property rights, M&A finance and others areas were deeply set within the firm’s core business. In 2012, Co-Effort seized the opportunity to merge with Haoying and expand our maritime affairs, international trade, and international arbitration offerings. In recent years, this cooperation has continuously improved Co-Effort’s legal service capabilities in areas such as TMT. In terms of business operations, this synergy has allowed us to keep up with developments and avail of the opportunities present in Shanghai. On the basis of our steady business development, Shanghai’s policy changes will continue to bring increased and improved customers to the law firm. Concurrently, the policy changes demand continuous improvement to a law firm's legal service capabilities, which also gives rise to an opportunity to improve the quality of China's overall legal services.
David Yu: 41 years post the “reform and opening up”, Shanghai has been located at the forefront of this process and also at the forefront of the country in terms of economic development, social governance, and judicial system reform. The city’s new vision puts new demands on the development strategy of law firms, their fields of practice, their lawyers’ mode of practice, as well as bringing new opportunities. This year, Shanghai will set up a new pilot free trade zone to implement an open policy and system with strong international competitiveness. In terms of legal protections, we will enact exploratory local legislation giving Shanghai more autonomy in opening up. This will inject new vitality into the entire legal services market and bring new challenges with respect to offshore trade development, market access and investment approval processes. The newly introduced Foreign Investment Law will also bring greater foreign investment opportunities to the Shanghai Free Trade Zone, especially the new district, and bring new demand for foreign investment related legal services. The establishment of the science and technology board and the pilot registration system are two specific examples of deepening capital market reforms. If the pilot registration system were to progress smoothly, the capital market environment will undergo substantive reforms.
In addition, "Huluntong" (Shanghai Link) is worthy of attention. We established the Huluntong working group two years ago to bring together relevant partners in the Shanghai and London offices to look into and define of the parameters of Huluntong. This will bring new business opportunities for law firms familiar with Chinese and British laws and regulations, regulatory policies, investment environment and culture. The adoption of the Yangtze River Delta as a national strategy development is aimed at breaking regional administrative barriers and forming an integrated development mechanism. With an aim to strengthen inter-regional legal cooperation, Shanghai will enhance its coordination with Jiangsu, Zhejiang, and Anhui when formulating local laws and regulations. It aims to gradually achieve regional standards and regulatory synergy. Lawyers will play an important role in providing input in local legislation, promoting mixed ownership reforms, expanding further opening up to foreign trade, and preventing systemic financial risks. The flow of legal talent across regions will also move from a unidirectional to multidirectional one.
Summit F. Chen: From the perspective of Shanghai’s urban development, after 40 years of reform and opening up of the entire country and nearly 30 years of development and opening up of the Pudong New Area, tremendous changes have been made to Shanghai's business environment. This is reflected especially by the World Bank’s 2019 business environment report which recognizes the leaps and bounds progress of Shanghai's global business environment. In particular, Shanghai's “contract implementation” evaluation scores are among the highest in the world. Shanghai courts performed better with regards on the time, cost, and judicial procedure quality index and has reached the judicial level of that of an OECD high-income economy. In February of this year, Shanghai continued with its launch of version 2.0 of business environment optimization, striving for multi-dimensional, multi-layered, and all-round promotion of the continuous optimization of its business environment. This is a big long-term reward that I think Shanghai has reaped in the process of opening up to the outside world. Take the rule of law as an example – the overall improvement of the legal services industry, in turn, promotes the improvement of the business environment. Hence it can seen that a law firm in Shanghai has excellent future development potential.
Shanghai's economy is very “extroverted”. In recent years, there have been more Shanghai law firms “expanding out” as well as a number of outside firms “expanding in”. Additionally, there are many foreign capital firms located here – this pattern of spread in industries and the city motto that “all roads lead to Shanghai” are related. At the same time, we also see that many multinational companies' Asia-Pacific headquarters and financial technology giants such as Ant Financial (formerly Alipay) have also set up in Shanghai, and then used it as a bridgehead for “expanding out”, all of which greatly promotes the continued demand for Shanghai's foreign legal services.
Shen Guoquan: Last year, President Xi Jinping gave Shanghai "three new major tasks" and at the same time accelerated construction of its international financial center. An international financial center however is inseparable from corresponding development of the legal service industry whether it be the City of London, Wall Street in New York or Lujiazui Financial City in Shanghai. These are all examples of the symbiotic relationship between developed financial markets and the legal services industry. Shanghai Municipal Party Committee Secretary Li Qiang proposed an action plan entitled “Four Big Attractions” last year: Shanghai’s service, manufacturing, shopping and culture. This was the first time Shanghai’s services was named as the top attraction, and the financial and legal services represents the “essence” of such services. Recently, Shanghai has restated the rule of law as an important symbol of the city's core competitiveness. Of course, this means that the legal industry will have greater development potential and a lawyers’ work will have greater value and an increased input. As a Shanghai firm with an immense national footprint, AllBright Law Offices enjoys ample development opportunity in this uplifting tide. It has the ability, the motivation and the responsibility to achieve this. One could say we’re the “right person in the right place and time.”
Separately, Shanghai has a large concentration of financial companies, which results in complex financial disputes, and requires the establishment of a fair, efficient and authoritative commercial legal system. In 2004, the Pudong International Arbitration Center as part of the Shanghai Arbitration Commission was established. In 2008, the Shanghai Pudong New Territories district established a financial tribunal system. Last year, Shanghai established China's first financial court. These institutions help “protect” Shanghai’s goal in building an international financial center. For law firms, the quality and network of international legal services continue to expand and improve. In the future, we will further expand the scope of business cooperation with our associate firm Stevenson, Wong & Co and strategic partner Bird & Bird. Contemporaneously, we will continue to learn from other countries’ centuries long refined management systems.
ALB: Shanghai's business environment is benchmarked against the highest international standards and quality. What path should Shanghai’s legal services take in order to achieve similar first-class international standards? What strategic plans and specific adjustments will law firms need to make to their management strategy?
Ma Chenguang: On January 14, 2019, the Shanghai Municipal Bureau of Justice issued a notice on the "Maximum effort towards achieving the ‘Shanghai Legal Services’ brand implementation opinion". This notice encompassed branches of the legal service spectrum including lawyers, notarization, arbitration, judicial appraisal and mediation, amongst others. The aforementioned services were to be benchmarked against the highest and best global standards, and must closely follow the key objectives of expanding the service supply, improving service quality, creating service brands, and optimizing service environment. These Shanghai legal services in striving to demonstrate their high standards and building a comparative advantage to others should aim to be a role model, correcting identified weaknesses, and achieving "If none can I can. If they can I’ll be better. If they do better I’ll be best.”
Specifically, Shanghai's business environment’s benchmark is at the highest international standard and level. In this environment, a large number of higher quality companies will emerge. Under the competitive environment of “fast fish eats slow fish” and in order to attract high quality enterprises and serve high value customers, law firms must accelerate the improvement of their professional, service and management qualities, identifying their key distinctiveness and enhancing their brand image.
In recent years, in conjunction with the continuous improvement of professional competence, Co-Effort has trained a group of outstanding young lawyers and actively responded to the “One Belt, One Road” initiative, and several overseas investment projects’ legal work have blossomed and bore fruit. In light of the new situation, to enhance brand awareness and legal service level, and to meet the international first-class standards Co-Effort’s collaboration will now focus on the national strategy of “Five Centers”, “One Belt and One Road” bridgeheads, and high-quality integrated development of the Yangtze River Delta region.
David Yu: A city’s business environment is an important example of its soft power and core competitiveness. Shanghai has accelerated its establishment of a world-class business environment, and the quality of legal services available has also increased. When compared to mature international and top flight legal service markets, there still remains a certain gap. Therefore, it is all the more necessary to target the highest international standards and quality, and to continuously optimize the legal service capabilities for shortcomings in local legal services. As well as being in line with international standards, Chinese law firms must combine their local strengths to develop their homegrown strengths. As far as the development strategy is concerned, Llinks Law’s aim has always been to adhere to the adage of a "specialized division of the question, integrated application of the solution", and with such an approach – provide those integrated solutions to customers. As the number of employees in the firm increases and our scale continues to expand, the competitiveness and development potential of our “integrated” operating model are becoming apparent. This year, Llinks Law will further deepen its specialization of practice areas, refine its integration of legal services with industry requirements, optimize the training system of Llinks Law, further improve understanding and insight into the legal system and industrial developments, and enhance the leadership, innovation and management of partners. All of the above done with the goal of promoting the firm’s development.
Summit F. Chen: Over two sessions, Liu Xiaoyun, President of the Shanghai High Court, proposed to set up an international commercial tribunal in Shanghai. In June of last year, the “Shanghai City Development of Foreign-related Legal Services Industry Implementation Opinion” was officially promulgated. In 2017, the Oriental Area Foreign Law Investigation Service Center was formally established. The series of actions undertaken by the government over the past few years have sent a strong signal to the legal services industry: Shanghai lawyers have bright prospects. Based on this, Dentons Shanghai will focus on legal areas such as cross-border arbitration, international commercial litigation, and customs law amongst others.
In addition, we will make full use of Dentons’ existing global service networks’ advantages, increase exchanges with overseas offices, participate regularly in Dentons’ global business meetings – using them to adsorb advanced and time-tested international operations experience, including in culturing such aspects as information environments, professionalism, market promotion, brand building and others. At the Dentons Global Partner Conference, which took place in Cancun in early March, where nearly 200 partners came from China, a core discussion on the future development strategy of the firm was conducted. We realize that a truly international law firm is not just an international business, but rather an internationalization of all operational, management, market and client management aspects. Just doing international business is only achieving internationalization at the professional level, and there is still a long way to go to becoming a truly international law firm.
In actual fact, the Shanghai legal services industry has undergone great changes in recent years, and the scale of a law firm and the internationalization of its business have become increasingly prominent. Dentons Shanghai’s internationalization process is steadily advancing: in 2017, the International Department was disbanded, and all personnel entered their respective professional fields and sub-sectors. At present, Dentons Shanghai has a total of nearly 200 lawyers who have experience studying or working abroad, including close to 30 lawyers with US, UK or other foreign legal licenses. This international talent reserve is the key to the future success of the law firm.
Shen Guoquan: Looking to be benchmarked against the world's first-class legal service standards, AllBright's overall development is on a steady pace: our degree of specialization is continuing to deepen, being driven by quality not quantity, and talent cultivation is further researched. This is done with an eye to improving the overall service level of the firm and especially the quality and performance of cutting-edge financial legal services. When consulting on an international level we pay particular attention to achieving practical results on specific projects. This ensures that AllBright's global legal services can be effectively and conveniently communicated to every client in their native countries. At the same time, we have also strengthened exchanges and mutual learning with domestic first-class firms to avoid remaking the wheel. In terms of resource allocation, AllBright’s has been committed to providing clients with all-encompassing and comprehensive legal solutions within its large firm structure. This year is the 20th anniversary of AllBright’s and reaching to where it is today, our firm currently has 1,840 LL.M. holders, 541 foreign educated returnees, and 114 J.D. holders. One of the key discussions being held currently is on how best to coordinate existing talent and utilize their maximum potential.
ALB: The strategic significance of the Yangtze River Delta is self-evident. Shanghai is a key city in the Yangtze River Delta. For a Shanghai firm to develop properly should it encompass the entire Yangtze River Delta region? What is key to maximizing regional synergies? What are the challenges and difficulties in the process?
Ma Chenguang: As the first special general partnership law firm in Shanghai, very early on a specialization strategy for the entire country was implemented by Co-Effort. Lying at an important intersection of the “Belt and Road” and the Yangtze River Economic Belt, the Yangtze River Delta urban area represents a strategic position and is the focus of close cooperation for Co-Effort. Co-Effort current has 11 national branch offices, 6 of which are located in the Yangtze River Delta. The good performance in the Yangtze River Delta region has played a significant role in Co-Effort’s development.
At the 2018 World Expo, strong support for the Yangtze River Delta integration saw the strategy being promoted at the national level. In trying to integrate the Yangtze River Delta, the core focus is “synergy”. The key to maximizing regional synergies lies in resource integration. Expansions bring about economies of scale benefits, but at the same time it will face other problems such as management and resource allocation. In order to maintain a scale that is both comprehensive and professional, Co-Effort explored an integrated management model. Early on Co-Effort tested an “incubation” professional team model which lead to a professional committee management model. We are trying to create a “cloud law firm” by using different specializations as a link and via our professional committees. Thus, from a perspective of vertical specializations and horizontal topography, a Co-Effort’s nationwide platform for legal service is formed which then provides services to multi-regional customers.
David Yu: The key to maximizing regional synergy is take the head, body and peripheral areas and develop a cooperation model. Shanghai and the Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Anhui provinces’ relationship is not of one between the leader and the led. A Shanghai law firm’s development requires regional synergy, breaking down differences between the provinces and cities in the region, maximizing both their respective comparative advantages and overall effectiveness. Shanghai will also continue to explore how to use a global outlook, policy initiatives, business environment, legal talent and other resources to obtain an advantage in the legal services market, and vitalize the overall legal service quality in the Yangtze River Delta region. Of course, currently regional coordinated development faces real challenges such as administrative barriers, regional policy and coordination cost issues between different provinces and cities. Law firms in the Yangtze River Delta region should strengthen their alliances by identifying integration and arising opportunities in industry development, regional business environments and shared legal service resources, while carrying out cross-regional and on point legal advice.
Summit F. Chen: Dentons has long been a proponent of the Yangtze River Delta integration strategy. 11 offices in the region have maintained inter-market development and business communications. In the past three to five years, the development speed of the Yangtze River Delta branch office has also been very fast. When talking about cooperation in the Yangtze River Delta region in the future, Shanghai is no longer an overlord, a monopolistic concept, but rather it is integrated into the Yangtze River Delta. This enables the fully free circulation of production factors and allows market expansion through cooperation. Something I have often raised: the hope that the Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Anhui provinces and Shanghai city opens their list of bankruptcy administrators, so that lawyers from different provinces can go to each to practice and break down regional barriers - Zhejiang has piloted this aspect, but the Yangtze River Delta has not yet formed such a union. This needs to be resolved by the future deepening of integration. On another front, it is also hoped that the Third Circuit Court will have greater breakthroughs in unifying the judicial cooperation of the four courts.
In November of last year, the Zhejiang Lawyers Association hosted the 3rd Yangtze River Delta Lawyers’ Cooperation and Development Forum, aiming to further strengthen the exchanges of Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Anhui lawyers, improve management levels of the lawyer professional, and promote joint development of the lawyer profession. We look forward to increased exchanges and cooperation in this area. This year, the main meeting for the leaders of the Yangtze River Delta region will be held in Anhui. It is reported that there will be substantial progress in the development of the Yangtze River Delta and coordinated development in the industry as a whole. As far as Dentons Shanghai is concerned, our 11 offices in the region will give full play to their respective local advantages and professional expertise, achieve complementary advantages and maximize regional synergies.
Shen Guoquan: A new impetus for the development of the Yangtze River Delta from an overarching design level has resulted from the launch of the official Yangtze River Delta integration proposal strategy. As a top tier city, Shanghai will have a greater role in the integration of the Yangtze River Delta, both as a barometer for progress and also as a driver of national development. AllBright has Suzhou, Nanjing and Hangzhou branch offices in the Yangtze River Delta. What we need to do is to raise the quality of the existing management standards, the synergy within the firm and continue to improve the service level expected of the firm. In seeking to maximize synergy, challenges arise for large firms such as AllBright, such as balancing overall interests with local interests, breaking from tradition, etc.. But facing these questions is necessary in order for firms to progress the integration of their services and assisting in the overall national strategy.
ALB: On the question pertaining to the value of law firm’s management, are there any particular ideas you are currently thinking about or exploring?
Ma Chenguang: Last year, Co-Effort’s 20th anniversary forum theme was “Inheritance, Innovation and Development”. These three key words are ones we have been thinking about continuously, that is, how best for the legal team to adapt to the opportunities and challenges presented by the development of science, technology and the economy. Additionally, it asks how the law firm as a whole inherits development and develops innovation. At the forum, we laid out the “Global Dreams” future collaboration plan’s essence. This year, our main task is to realize this plan’s genesis; attracting talent via both soft policy and hard numbers, resulting in young lawyers undergoing this genesis and becoming our future partners.
This year, Co-Effort will officially launch a brand-new intelligent application software platform that it has spent a considerable amount of effort to develop. Co-Effort will begin moving into a new first-class office area tailored for junior lawyers at the end of May.
In addition, we will launch the Co-Effort Law School Double Instructor program, connecting with national and international well-known law schools, business schools and law firms. An incubation fund will fund courses and it is possible to apply to the fund for research and development, general expenses and exchange opportunities. The aim is to have lawyers after a period of three years or so of an individualized custom program with the ability to handle cases independently and a keen willingness to participate in professional development. We will continue to explore other training models and prepare a talent pool to help develop Co-Effort’s global future.
David Yu: China's legal service industry has matured over the past 40 years. The legal service industry is now entering into a new period of development. China’s legal services market is being reshaped by changes in the regulatory environment, the impact of new technologies and standards, and what customers demand in their legal services. The competitiveness of the firm is not only measured by its talent, customer knowledge, know-how and past experience but also by its development strategy, management quality and innovative ability. Firms with top tier management systems will have a clear overall advantage amongst its competitors.
Since its establishment, Llinks Law adhered to a "Llinks Law cooperation - linked development" model. It has also long practiced a "splitting work smartly and working smartly together" model also. The advantages of this integration are now being seen. The first is risk management, which is the foundation for the sustainable development of any law firm. We have a sound risk management system which is undergoing further improvements. Second is talent and know-how. Finally, operational specialization.
This year we will comprehensively upgrade the back-office departments such as administrative operations, IT, marketing, and knowledge management. In the face of today's ever-changing legal services market, full-service firms are more likely to focus resources on researching new business opportunities, investing in new technologies and breaking new ground. We therefore encourage lawyers to constantly “break new ground” and have a feel for current industry trends.
Summit F. Chen: Since 2015, Dentons Shanghai has gradually entered a relatively stable development phase, transitioning from scaling in size to standardization of procedures, which requires management concepts and practices to be in lock step. First of all, micro-management of matters is no longer suitable for the law firm at the present stage of development. Instead, “imperceptible” guided management of the firm can stimulate its vitality and potential. Secondly, when the body of law firm partners has relatively matured, it is especially effective to give partners full autonomy, rely on the self-discipline of partners and common values to solve problems. As law firms metamorphize into the next stage of development, many start facing problems of inheritance. We can learn from difficulties experienced by others, as the problem of the distribution system has not been resolved into that of "taking one to put all into motion", along with the “invisible” assets of the law firm – the inheritance of a culture is incredibly hard to manage correctly. Although we have not yet experienced this problem, we need to make preparations on dealing with it. We also hope that in the future, more of our junior talents will join in and participate in management affairs at an early stage to ensure that the firm will continue to build a long-lasting endurance.
On reflection, what are our strengths and weaknesses when competing with world-class law firms? With regards to the distribution system that many people are concerned about, is a partnership or a company model better? From the perspective of productivity and production of relations and using Dentons Zhuhai as an example, I believe that the partnership model’s distribution and management system is better than the company model. At first, Dentons Zhuhai was set up as a company model law firm, but over the next few years, no matter how much money was invested, the firm continued to languish and so it changed into a partnership system and adopted Dentons Shanghai's management model. In just three years, there was an immediate effect: it has become the largest local income-generating firm with the highest per capita income.
The third question to be pondered is: what are the comparative advantages of the Beijing and Shanghai firms? Over the course of future development, can we – merge both the intricacies of the Shanghai firm with the grandiosity of Beijing firms, though in reality of course such a merger is difficult. Fortunately, as a member of Denton's global legal service network, we are in close contact with the world’s top law firms allowing much to and fro, exposure to novel ideas and valuable transformational insight. This forms part of our firm’s core competitiveness.
Shen Guoquan: After 20 years of development, AllBright’s has grown from 45 lawyers to 2,500 lawyers. Our business volume has increased from RMB 9 million to nearly RMB 3.2 billion today. It has become the largest firm in southern China and has entered the top 100 of global law firms. The existence, growth and future prospects of AllBright’s shows that our existing management system and legal team structure have proven to be a Chinese law firm development model adapted to the times. But at the same time, we are often asked what is the management system of AllBright’s and how does one explain the phenomenon that is AllBright’s?
First and foremost, the development of the firm is closely related to the progress of the rule of law in the country. The Chinese lawyer institution’s restoration has been ongoing for exactly 40 years and has experienced tremendous development. Second, we have not simply copied the management system of venerable Western firms. Instead we continue to explore management models and development paths suitable according to national circumstances. This question doesn’t have a standard answer. Instead we need to innovate and discover a path according to China's national conditions, a path that is compatible and creative. Third, how to best structure the firm? On a company structure or a commission structure? I think AllBright’s takes a mixed ownership approach. Our professional lawyers’ strengths are exercised according to the different characteristics and different development stages of the work. The firm tries to maximize the integration of resources through such innovation of its management model. Fourth, the law provides a service to the economy. Professionalism lies at the heart of lawyers always. Our future development always focuses on excellence and specialization. Fifth, the decision-making process is based on a consensus and rewarding “a hundred schools of thought” while “making order out of chaos”. Once a decision reaches the executive level the entire firm will then throw its weight behind the measure – this is one of the intrinsic values pursued by AllBright.
管理合伙人圆桌对话：聚焦上海
上海的法律服务业发展日趋完善。随着2020年上海将基本建成国际金融中心，这个新坐标无疑将给上海带来诸多新的发展机会。与经济发展同节奏的律师事务所也随着城市的全新定位在调整、升级他们的发展战略，为跨境客户提供对标国际一流标准的法律服务。在本期专题中，我们将深度对话四位管理合伙人，听他们分享成为真正国际化律所的实现路径、管理战略，以及过程中面对机遇与挑战的应对之道。
- 协力律师事务所管理合伙人 马晨光
- 通力律师事务所管理合伙人 俞卫锋
- 大成中国区董事，大成上海主任、高级合伙人 陈峰
- 锦天城律师事务所高级合伙人 沈国权
ALB：上海的政策红利加上城市发展愿景，落地到法律服务领域，给律所带来了哪些发展机遇？
马晨光：2018年，上海的城市定位在国际经济、金融、贸易、航运基础上增加了科技创新中心，上海的营商环境目标定为“对标国际最高标准和最高水平”，长江三角洲区域一体化发展亦上升为国家战略，种种政策红利势必为上海发展带来巨大机遇。
落地到法律服务领域，上海的政策红利加上城市发展愿景将带来更多业务机会和更高客户质量，尤其是上海“五个中心”的城市新定位，将为金融投资、跨境并购、海商海事、国际贸易、知识产权、TMT等法律服务领域带来更多市场。
建所初期，协力就发展了知识产权、并购金融等领域，并深耕成为事务所核心业务；2012年，协力审时度势抓住时机，完成和浩英的合并，扩充了海商海事、国际贸易、国际仲裁等领域业务实力。近年，协力也在不断提升TMT等领域法律服务能力。在业务布局上，协力一直紧跟时代发展，紧抓上海机遇。在业务稳定发展基础上，如今这些政策变化将为律所带来更多、更优客户，同时也要求律所法律服务能力必须不断提高，而这也是提升中国整体法律服务质量的一个契机。
俞卫锋：改革开放41年来，上海站在改革开放的最前沿，在经济发展、社会治理、司法体制改革等方面一直走在全国前列。城市的新定位对律所的发展战略和律师的执业领域、执业方式提出了新的要求、带来了新的机遇。今年，上海将增设自由贸易试验区新片区，实施具有较强国际竞争力的开放政策和制度。在法制保障方面，将探索以地方立法形式先行先试，赋予上海更多自主开放权限。这将为整个法律服务市场注入新活力，在离岸贸易发展、市场准入、投资审批方面带来新挑战。而新出台的《外商投资法》也将为上海自贸区尤其是新片区带来更大的外商投资开放空间，为涉外法律服务带来新机遇。设立科创板并试点注册制是深化资本市场改革的具体措施，如注册制试点进展顺利，将重构资本市场生态。
此外，“沪伦通”值得关注。我们在两年前就成立了沪伦通工作小组，汇集上海和伦敦办公室的相关合伙人，对“沪伦通”的发展落地进行了深刻研究和解读。这对于熟悉中英两国法律法规、监管政策、投资环境与文化的律所将是新机遇。长三角一体化发展上升为国家战略旨在打破地区行政壁垒，形成一体化发展机制。在法治协同方面，上海在制定地方性法律法规时，将加强与江苏、浙江、安徽的协同，逐步做到标准协同、监管协同。律师在参与地方立法，推进混合所有制改革、扩大对外开放、防范系统性金融风险等领域将发挥重要作用，而跨地区法律人才的流动也将从单向走向多向。
陈峰：从城市发展角度讲，经过整个国家40年的改革开放和近30年的上海浦东新区开发开放，给上海的营商环境带来非常好的变化，特别是世界银行发布的2019年营商环境报告，认可了上海在全球营商环境评价中取得的跃升式进步，特别是上海“执行合同”评估指标得分居全球城市前列，上海法院在时间、成本、司法程序质量指数等方面均好于经合组织高收入经济体司法平均水平。今年2月，上海又进一步推出优化营商环境2.0版，力求多维度、立体化、全方位推动营商环境持续优化，这是我认为上海这个城市在经济对外开放过程中长期形成的一个很大的红利。法治是最好的基础设施，法律服务业的整体提升，又反过来促进营商环境的提高。由此可见，律师行业在上海未来的发展中有极好的愿景。
上海经济的外向性很强，这几年“走出去”的上海律所较多，同时“走进来”的律所也不在少数，此外在上海的外资所也很多，这样一种行业分布格局与上海“海纳百川”的城市精神不无关系。我们同时看到，很多跨国公司的亚太区总部、以及蚂蚁金服这样的金融科技巨头也落户上海、进而将上海作为“走出去”的桥头堡，这些都极大促进了上海涉外法律服务需求的不断增大。
沈国权：去年，习近平总书记对上海提出了“三项新的重大任务”，同时加快推进上海国际金融中心建设。而国际金融中心的建设，离不开法律服务业的发展，无论伦敦金融城、纽约华尔街，还是陆家嘴金融城，我们都看到发达金融业与法律服务业的紧密融合。上海市委书记李强去年提出上海“四大品牌”的行动方案：上海服务、上海制造、上海购物、上海文化——第一次把上海服务放在四大品牌建设首位，金融、法律等服务业又是其中“重头戏”。近日，上海进一步明确把法治作为城市核心竞争力的重要标志，意味着律师业将有更大的发展空间、律师也将发挥更大的价值与作用。锦天城作为立足上海的全国大所，面临时代发展机遇，身兼责任和使命，同时更具备相匹配的法律服务能力，可谓“天时地利人和”。
另一方面，上海集中大量的金融公司，涉及复杂的金融纠纷，客观上也必然要求建立一个公正、高效、权威的金融审判体系。2004年上海仲裁委员会浦东国际仲裁中心成立，2008年上海浦东新区组建金融法庭，去年上海设立了中国首个金融法院，这些都为上海建设国际金融中心“保驾护航”。对于律所来说，国际化法律服务的水平和网络也在进一步拓展与提升中。未来，我们与联营所史蒂文生黄律师事务所、战略合作伙伴鸿鹄律师事务所将进一步扩大业务合作范围，同时也不断借鉴发达国家百年老所的先进管理之道。
ALB：上海的营商环境对标的是国际最高标准和最高水平，与之相伴的上海法律服务对标国际一流水准的实现路径是？律所会在管理战略上做出哪些重要部署与具体调整？
马晨光：2019年1月14日，上海市司法局发布的关于印发《全力打响“上海法律服务”品牌的实施意见》的通知中提到，聚焦律师、公证、仲裁、司法鉴定、调解等法律服务行业，对标国际最高标准、最好水平，要紧扣扩大服务供给、提高服务质量、创建服务品牌、优化服务环境等关键环节，争当样板、补好短板，做到“人无我有、人有我优、人优我特”，高标准构筑上海法律服务的比较优势。
具体而言，上海的营商环境对标的是国际最高标准和最高水平，这种环境下必会涌现大批更高水准的企业。在“快鱼吃慢鱼”的竞争环境下，想要匹配到高标准企业、服务好高水平客户，要求律所必须加快提高专业水平、服务质量和管理能力，抓住特色、提升品牌。
近年来，协力在专业能力不断精进的同时，培养了一批优秀青年律师，并积极响应“一带一路”倡议，有多个海外投资项目的法律业务开花结果。面对新形势，协力将紧紧围绕“五个中心”建设、“一带一路”桥头堡建设、长三角高质量一体化发展等国家战略，提升品牌知名度和法律服务能级，向国际一流水准看齐。
俞卫锋：营商环境是一个城市重要的软实力和核心竞争力，上海正在加快打造国际一流的营商环境，上海的法律服务水平也随之提升。而与国际成熟、一流的法律服务市场相比，我们还有一定的差距。因此，更需要对标国际最高标准和最高水平，针对本地法律服务中的短板弱项，持续优化法律服务能力和水平。在与国际接轨的同时，中国律所要结合本土优势，发挥中国律所特长。
就发展战略而言，通力一直以来秉持“专业化分工，一体化运营”，坚持走一体化的道路，为客户提供一体化的服务，这是我们的立所理念。随着律所员工人数增加，规模不断扩大，我们“一体化”的运营模式的竞争力和发展潜力正在逐步显现。今年，通力将进一步深化业务领域的专业化、细化法律服务与产业的结合机制，优化通力的培训体系，提高对法律制度、产业发展的理解力和洞察力，提升合伙人的领导力、管理力、创新力，共同推动律所发展。
陈峰：两会期间，上海高院院长刘晓云建议在上海设立国际商事法庭。去年6月，《上海市发展涉外法律服务业实施意见》正式颁布。2017年，东方域外法律查明服务中心正式成立。这几年政府出台的一系列动作都给法律服务业释放出强烈信号：上海律师将大有可为。据此，上海大成接下来会在跨境仲裁、国际商事诉讼、海关等领域重点发力。
此外，我们还将充分利用大成现有的全球化服务网络优势，加大与海外办公室的交流，定期参加大成全球层面的业务会议，引进他们先进成熟的国际化运作经验，包括信息化建设、专业化建设、市场宣传与品牌建设等。3月初刚刚在坎昆结束的大成全球合伙人大会，中国区去了将近200位合伙人，共就律所未来发展战略等核心议题进行了深入探讨。我们意识到，真正的国际化律所并不是只做国际业务，而是在运营理念、管理方式、市场与客户管理理念上的全方位国际化。光做国际业务，只做到了专业化层面的国际化，距离一个真正的国际化律所仍差距很远。
事实上，上海法律服务业这几年发生了很大变化，律所规模化与业务国际化愈发凸显。大成上海的国际化进程也在稳步推进：2017年取消了国际部的设置，所有人员进入到各个专业领域与细分行业中。目前，大成上海共计有近200名海外留学和工作经历的律师，其中近30位持有美国、英国等国家和地区执照的律师，这种国际化的人才储备是律所未来致胜的关键。
沈国权：在对标国际一流法律服务标准这个方向努力外，锦天城发展总的基调是稳中有进：专业化程度上向纵深发展、规模驱动转为质量驱动、人才培养进一步进行专业细分，以此提升事务所整体服务水平，特别是前沿金融服务的水准和能力。我们在交流的过程中，尤为重视国际层面合作具体业务的切实落地，确保锦天城全球法律服务能有效便捷地辐射到当地每一位客户。同时，我们也加强与国内一流兄弟所的交流和学习，避免弯路。在资源配置上，锦天城一直致力于用规模大所的专业配置能力，为客户提供综合性的、全方位法律事务服务方案。今年是锦天城成立20周年，一路走到今天，锦天城目前共有1840个法学硕士、541个海归、114个法学博士，如何把现有人才资源进行整合、充分发挥其最大价值是我们接下去要做的一个重点工作。
ALB：长三角的战略意义不言而喻，上海又是长三角重要城市。上海律所发展的应有之义是做好长三角的整体布局吗？实现区域协同效应最大化的关键是？过程中面临的挑战与难点是？
马晨光：作为上海首家特殊的普通合伙制律师事务所，协力很早在全国开始布局专业化战略。长三角城市群作为“一带一路”与长江经济带的重要交汇地带，具有重要战略地位，是协力一直以来着重布局区域。协力现有11家国内分所，其中6家属于长江三角洲，做好长三角整体布局对协力实现飞速发展起到很大作用。
2018年进博会上，大力支持长三角一体化发展被提升到国家战略。长三角一体化，核心是“协同”，实现区域协同效应最大化的关键在于资源整合。规模扩张会带来经济效益，但同时会面临更多管理、资源分配等问题。为打造一家综合性的专业化规模所，协力不断探索一体化管理模式，协力较早尝试了专业委员会“孵化”专业团队模式，推行专业委员会管理模式，我们尝试建设“云端律所”，以专业为纽带，通过专业委员会，从纵向的专业和横向的地域这两个角度，把全国范围内协力平台的法律服务资源都整合在一起，跨地域为客户提供服务。
俞卫锋：实现区域协同效应最大化的关键是去龙头、去中心、扁平化、分布式的发展合作模式，上海与江浙皖三省不是领导与被领导的关系。上海律所的发展将寻求区域化的协同合作，打破区域内各省市的地区差异，最大程度彰显各自的比较优势，使得整体效能最大化。上海也将继续探索如何利用国际视野、政策红利、营商环境、法律人才储备等资源发挥法律服务市场的平台优势，激发长三角地区的整体法律服务水平。当然，在当前区域协调发展过程中，仍将面临不同省市间存在的行政壁垒问题、区域政策问题，协调成本问题等现实挑战。长三角地区的律所应该加强合作联盟，找准行业发展与区域营商环境的结合点和切入点，共享法律服务资源，进行跨区域、精准化的法律服务建设。
陈峰：大成很早就提出长三角一体化战略，该区域11家办公室在市场开发与业务交流方面一直保持互通有无。近三五年来，长三角分所的发展速度也非常快。谈及未来长三角地区的合作，上海不再是龙头、一家独大的概念，而是融入到长三角之中，实现生产要素全面自由流通、合力把市场做得更大。我也一直在提：希望开放江浙沪皖三省一市的破产管理人名录，这样不同省份的律师可以到互相的地方去执业，打破区域壁垒——浙江在这方面先行试点，但尚未形成长三角一体化的制度性安排，有待将来的一体化深化中得到解决。另一方面，也希望第三巡回法庭在统一对四地法院司法协作方面能有更大的突破。
去年11月，浙江省律协承办了第三届长三角律师行业合作发展论坛，旨在进一步加强沪苏浙皖律师行业交流，提升律师行业管理水平，促进律师行业共同发展。我们期待这方面交流与合作探讨越来越多。今年，长三角律师行业合作发展论坛筹备会暨沪苏浙皖律师协会工作联席会将在安徽召开，据悉将会在行业发展长三角一体化和协同发展有实质性进展。就大成上海来说，我们在该区域的11家办公室将充分发挥各自区位优势和专业特长，实现优势互补、将区域协同效应发挥至最大化。
沈国权：长三角一体化战略的正式提出，标志着国家从顶层设计层面为长三角的发展注入新的动力。上海作为龙头城市，在长三角一体化布局中将有更大作为，成为发展标杆、带动全国发展。锦天城在长三角地区设有苏州、南京、杭州分所，我们要做的是将律所现有管理水平、协同效应提升至一个新的高度，不断优化事务所的标准化服务水准。在最大程度释放协同效应的过程中，对于锦天城这样的规模大所来说也面临着一些挑战，比如整体利益和局部利益问题、传统理念的破和立等等，但在事务所服务并助力国家整体战略实施的过程中，必将进一步推动事务所一体化建设的前进步伐。
ALB：就律所管理价值这个话题，还有哪些事项是您正在思考的、或在摸索中前行的？
马晨光：去年，协力二十周年论坛主题是“传承、创新与发展”，这三个关键词是我们一直在思索的问题，即面对律师队伍新老传承及科技、经济等发展带来的机遇与挑战，律所如何做到继承发展、开拓创新。论坛上，我们推出了“逐梦全球”协力未来菁英计划。今年，我们主要任务就是要去落实这个未来菁英孵化计划，通过软件和硬件的准备，吸引更多专业人才，让年轻律师通过孵化计划获得成长，成为未来合伙人。
今年，协力花费大量精力开发的全新智能应用软件平台将正式上线，协力扩租一整层楼为青年律师量身定做的一流办公区域也可于五月底正式入驻。
此外，我们将推出协力律师学院双导师计划，对接国内外知名法学院、商学院和律所，孵化基金出资购买课程、向基金申请研发经费、市场费用和交流机会；为执业年限三年左右、有一定的独立办案能力、有专业化发展意愿的律师，定制一对一的孵化方案等等。我们将不断探索更多人才培养模式，为协力全球未来的可持续发展做好人才储备工作。
俞卫锋：中国法律服务业历经四十年发展，日趋成熟。法律服务业进入了新的发展时期，监管环境的变化、新技术新模式的冲击和客户对法律服务需求的变化，也在重塑中国的法律服务市场，事务所的竞争力不仅体现于人才梯队、客户资源、知识储备、过往经验，也体现于律所的发展战略、管理水平和创新能力。管理体系领先的事务所将在竞争中占有明显的整体优势。
通力自成立之日起，就秉承“通力合作、共同发展”，长期坚持“专业分工、一体运营”的模式，一体化的优势将逐步体现。首先是风险控制，这是任何一家律所可持续发展的根基。我们有完善的风控体系，接下来还要进一步加强；其次是人才与知识储备；第三是运营专业化。
今年我们将对行政运营、IT、市场推广、知识管理等后台支持部门进行全面升级。面对当今千变万化的法律服务市场，一体化的事务所更易集中资源研究新业务、投资新技术、开拓新领域。我们因此鼓励律师要不断“投资新领域”，钻研行业动态。
陈峰：2015年开始，上海大成逐渐进入到相对平稳的发展阶段，从规模化过渡到规范化，这就要求管理理念与做法上也要同步跟进。首先，事无巨细的管理不再适应律所现阶段的发展，代之以“润物细无声”的引导式管理，更能激发事务所的活力与势能；其次，当律所的合伙体比较成熟后，给与合伙人充分自治、靠合伙人的自律和共同价值观来解决问题，效果尤佳。伴随律所发展阶段的更替，很多律所开始面临传承的问题。我们看到一些前车之鉴，因为分配制度问题没解决好而“牵一发动全身”，也看到律所“看不见”的资产——文化的传承，真正做好更是难上加难。虽然我们目前还没经历这个问题，但还是要提前想好如何应对，同时也希望在未来的日子里，能有更多青年才俊的加入、提早介入管理事务，确保事务所永葆发展后劲。
另外也在思考，与国际一流律师事务所竞争时，我们的优劣势是什么？对于很多人都关注的分配制度问题，到底是合伙制好还是公司制好？从生产力与生产关系的视角看，我认为合伙制下的分配制度与管理制度的优越性要好过公司制，珠海大成就是个例子。起初，珠海大成是公司制律所，但接下来几年无论投进多少钱似乎都做不起来，于是改成合伙制、引入大成上海的管理模式。短短三年间效果立杆见影：成为当地创收总量最高、人均创收最高的律所。
第三个在思考的问题是，北京所和上海所的相对优势是什么？在未来发展过程中，我们能否做个结合——既保有上海所的精致又汲取北京所的大气，但真正实现这个结合并不容易。庆幸的是，作为大成全球法律服务网络的一员，我们在与国际顶级律所的紧密接触中，不断经历认知的迭代与观念的颠覆，蜕变后的视野对我们来说是最有价值的部分、也是我们的竞争力。
沈国权：经过20年的发展，锦天城从45名律师发展到2500名律师，业务量从900万增加至今天的近32个亿，成为南方第一大所，也已进入全球100强律所的榜单排名。锦天城的存在、发展以及前景表明，现有的管理体制和律师队伍建设被证明是适应时代发展的中国律所发展模式。但同时，我们也常被问及锦天城的管理体制是什么、怎么解释锦天城的这个现象性存在？
首要一点是，事务所的发展与国家法治进步息息相关，中国律师制度恢复整整40年，中国律师业经历了翻天覆地的发展；第二，我们没有照搬西方发达国家百年老所的管理体制，而是结合国情不断摸索适合自己的管理模式与发展之路——这条路没有预设标准答案，需要我们去创新，去书写结合中国国情的答题。这条路应兼容并包、更富创造性；第三，如何给事务所定性？公司制还是提成制？我想锦天城走的是一条混合所有制之路，根据业务不同特点和不同发展阶段，发挥各专业律师的优势。事务所尽可能通过管理模式创新，使事务所最大化整合资源；第四，法律为实体经济服务，专业性永远是律师的立足之本，在规模做大的同时专注精和专是我们未来的发展方向；第五，决策过程实行充分民主、鼓励“百家争鸣”，但“似乱实稳”，一旦进入执行层面则全员合一，这是锦天城奉行的主流价值观之一。
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